Dr. Kimberly Manning, an Emory University professor of medicine working at Grady Memorial Hospital, was one of a group of physicians struck by the number of patients they saw there who were still not vaccinated against COVID-19. They decided to set up an information desk in the hospital’s lobby to take questions from passersby. They call it the “No Judgement Zone.” Patients, staff members and visitors have approached doctors at the desk to ask about the vaccine. Manning talked about the effort with staff writer Ariel Hart. This interview was edited for length and clarity.
“I’ll tell you, one of the biggest reasons why people that I have encountered haven’t been vaccinated is just logistics. Some people just need you to walk them over to where they get checked in. Or help them figure out how to fill out the paper. You would think that with all of the things you see in the news that we will be getting bombarded with really resistant people arguing at us. It’s not that at all.
We have people crying because they have never been heard. We have people who are nervous. We have people who want somebody to go with them. There are all of these reasons why that don’t seem to make it into the news or into any articles. And I’m like, you know what, you won’t know any individual person’s reason for still deliberating unless you ask them.”
“What we pitched to Grady is, what if we just set up a table in the middle of Grady in the lobby that says, ‘We’ll answer your question. And we’re not going to judge you and we’re not going to label you as anything.’
You’re just a person who has a question. And we are able to give you factual information.”
Credit: Jenni Girtman
Credit: Jenni Girtman
Listen, be patient
“It’s not like I’m a used car salesman, and trying to sell the deal right now or it doesn’t count. But what I’ve also learned through having these conversations is that ideas and empathy spread. And we plant seeds. I cannot count how many people I’ve spoken to about the COVID vaccine, who have been like, ‘No, I don’t think so. No.’ Then I run into them two weeks later and they tell me they got vaccinated.”
The approach
“When they come over to the table, first we thank them for coming.
We ask them if they’ve been vaccinated or not. And then we figure out on a spectrum where they are in terms of their likelihood to ever be vaccinated. Zero being: I will never, ever get vaccinated. Ten being: Yes I’ll definitely get vaccinated. If you are anything other than a zero, then we have something to talk about.
If you’re a zero and you say, ‘Absolutely no,’ you’re not deliberating. So what I say is, ‘It sounds like you’ve thought a lot about this and you’ve already decided, but is there anything I can say to you that might change your mind?’
And I have found people that say, ‘I’m listening.’”
Angst
“I’ve encountered a lot of people who — they’re waiting. They’re waiting until they kind of feel like it’s the right time. And I said, ‘You know, you’re not likely to feel that in the time where you need to get vaccinated. So you will likely have to do it scared, with a little bit of angst. There are a lot of things we do a little scared.’
I give them examples. I say, ‘If you need somebody to go with you—?’ To get there I’ve walked people into the space to get their vaccine and sat with them.”
Credit: Jenni Girtman
Credit: Jenni Girtman
Be kind
“I’m not arguing with people who are absolutely against vaccination. I’m not going to spend my energy on that. But I’m still going to treat you with kindness. What I say to them always is, ‘Right now you seem like you have really made up your mind. But I want you to know, if you change your mind, I will not in any single way try to make you feel bad about changing your mind. I will welcome you with open arms and I will be so excited.’
I have had several people come back to me who were vehement no’s, who came back and said, ‘You know what, which one should I get? Because I don’t want none of them, but which one do you think I should get?’ And I’ll be like, ‘The one that goes in your arm. But we can talk more about the differences and which can help you make the best choice for you.’”
Never shame
“The main thing that I think we are trying to do is keep the dialogue open. Keep the light on on the porch. Because if you’re going off on people, and you try to shame them, they’re never going to. People don’t like to be shamed. When people get shamed, they get on their hind legs and they start fighting. And I don’t want to put you on your hind legs.
Something that stands out for me is, when the delta variant first emerged, I made a little video appeal on Twitter one day. And this person commented in an antagonistic way. Like, ‘I don’t care what you say, No way I’m taking that thing.’ And I responded and said, ‘You know what, it sounds like you’ve thought about this a lot. Well, if you change your mind, let me know.’
And they said something else that was kind of contentious. And I said something else kind.
And that person started to follow me on Twitter, would comment here and there on things. Eventually the conversation has shifted over to, ‘I wish I lived where you are, because I’d let you vaccinate me.’ And then my response is, ‘I wish I lived where you live too, because I would vaccinate you. But if you want to live tweet while you do it, I will sit still and be with you virtually. If you want.’
And maybe about four or five weeks ago, the person posted to Twitter that they got vaccinated.”
Listen
“I’m a Black American who is connected through a lot of people in my community. It started to make me tired to keep reading these reasons why people thought that Black people wouldn’t get vaccinated. Specifically I’ve even had some personal frustration just with the use of the word ‘hesitancy.’ Because, to me, to be hesitant suggests that you’re afraid.
Minority people are not a monolith. And every individual person has different reasons why they feel the way that they do. I started recognizing, after I would have conversations in the community with people, that the simple question of asking people, ‘Why? What is your biggest concern?’ And listening to their answer and then having a respectful conversation — it goes really far.”
This story has been corrected to reflect that Dr. Kimberly Manning is a full professor at the Emory University School of Medicine.
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